Repainting cost and suggestions

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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

I stumble across a used engine with 96K all accessories including for a price I couldn't pass up. SO i'll be doing the swap in the next month or so.

Once the swap is done it'll be time to start thinking about the exterior. The jeep is in really good condition with very little rust except a passenger side rear rocker that has developed bubbles in the paint suggesting full replacement.

The paint is starting to flake in usual spots (center hood, roof where rails and grooves are and a few other areas). I'm trying to decide which direction I want to go and of course money has everything to do with it.

option 1: I go to the auto store, get some sanding pads, grab my drill and go to town on the hood and roof and DIY it to buy some time (3-5 years) while I save up some money for a professional job. of course that won't address the rocker but it'll need to be replaced regardless so i'm hoping it can wait a few years.

option 2: I pull the vinyls and wood trim ( both look pretty bad, i'm thinking of trying to save money by rewrapping the trim in new vynils and using vinyl rolls over pre cuts) i'll take most chrome off myself to save money and take to a professional shop, get them to address the rocker, sand down the jeep and repaint with a high quality paint job that'll last for 20 + years and hopefully longer if its taken care of.

Option 3: do option 2 but get a cheap paint job to last a few years to save up for a better paint job.


my questions are:
option 1:
I've never painted before, its a black and i'll match that paint, how difficult is it to do a back yard paint job out in the elements? what will I need and do you have any suggestions that'll make it easier and the outcome better? and is there anything I can do to stop rust progression on the rocker for a few years without opening a can of worms... it looks ok now but you can tell its got some rust internally.

option 2:
What kind of cost (ball Park) am I looking at? I know this will vary depending on shop but I'm just trying to get an idea before I get official quotes so I know if someone is quoting fairly or not. has any rewrapped the trim with new vinyl and how difficult is that? should I get the frame treated while i'm there and could someone give me an idea on whats involved with that.
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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kansasboy001
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by kansasboy001 »

You can sand down and use a this stuff Napa sells called rust proof m/d on the rocker. It's like por 15 but doesn't need to be painted over.

On the other note a cheap paintjob would probably run you about 1500+ without stripping down and primer or anything
1983 Cherokee Laredo. 360/ 727/ np228/ Junkyard 7427 TBI/ Msd ignition
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tgreese
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by tgreese »

I suggest you get this book - https://www.amazon.com/How-Paint-Your-B ... 1932494227 - this covers all the options from having the car painted to doing a pro-style job yourself.

Do you want to change the color? Likely the best value is to leave the color the same, keep the doors shut and paint the exterior only. Your local 1-day shop will respray the whole car for a few hundred bucks, or check Craig's list for places that will do resprays. Your typical body shop won't want to repaint your car - they want collision work.

With the 1-day job, the more you do yourself, the better it will turn out. Typically the 1-day shops only offer a fixed number of colors, so you have to choose the color that's closest to what you want. I've had a couple of cars done this way, and my Dad did a couple as well. Turns out pretty nice ... not factory or custom quality, but much better than most people can do at home.

If you want to do it yourself, the Kirker paint kits are cheap and of good quality. The hot rod guys really like the Kirker paints. Realize ther is quite an investment in gear (including PPE) to spray a catalyzed automotive paint. This paint contains isocyanate (cyanide) and can really mess you up if you breathe it or get it on your skin.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

tgreese wrote:I suggest you get this book - https://www.amazon.com/How-Paint-Your-B ... 1932494227 - this covers all the options from having the car painted to doing a pro-style job yourself.

Do you want to change the color? Likely the best value is to leave the color the same, keep the doors shut and paint the exterior only. Your local 1-day shop will respray the whole car for a few hundred bucks, or check Craig's list for places that will do resprays. Your typical body shop won't want to repaint your car - they want collision work.

With the 1-day job, the more you do yourself, the better it will turn out. Typically the 1-day shops only offer a fixed number of colors, so you have to choose the color that's closest to what you want. I've had a couple of cars done this way, and my Dad did a couple as well. Turns out pretty nice ... not factory or custom quality, but much better than most people can do at home.

If you want to do it yourself, the Kirker paint kits are cheap and of good quality. The hot rod guys really like the Kirker paints. Realize ther is quite an investment in gear (including PPE) to spray a catalyzed automotive paint. This paint contains isocyanate (cyanide) and can really mess you up if you breathe it or get it on your skin.

Awesome!

I have added the book to my cart.

I'll be keeping it the same black I think.. its easy to match and when I have more $ (not that that will ever happen) and get it professionally painted I'll look at different colors then.

if I go that route then maybe I should get the rocker panel addressed before? how expensive would you think it would be to get that section cut out and welded?
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:22 am

Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

kansasboy001 wrote:You can sand down and use a this stuff Napa sells called rust proof m/d on the rocker. It's like por 15 but doesn't need to be painted over.

On the other note a cheap paintjob would probably run you about 1500+ without stripping down and primer or anything
I think the rocker is pretty weak from rust. I honestly think the only "fix" will have to be cutting it out, BUT I'll definitely check that stuff out... would it be good for frames or should I use POR 15 on it.
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust

candymancan
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by candymancan »

Personally ive used rust reformer from rustolium on my frame ect.. Juet gatta use a lot of coats. Get the loose rust off but you dont have to go crazy, lose stuff only abd spray right over. And i havent had rust come back in 2 years now. I did 50% of my underside with it that was rusting
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)
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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

candymancan wrote:Personally ive used rust reformer from rustolium on my frame ect.. Juet gatta use a lot of coats. Get the loose rust off but you dont have to go crazy, lose stuff only abd spray right over. And i havent had rust come back in 2 years now. I did 50% of my underside with it that was rusting

AWESOME! that's what I needed. The frame is rust free right now. I want to keep it that way.

I will eventually do a full frame rust "proof" coating and also I've seen this stuff in a can that has a tube with a nozzle you can stick in the gaps in the frame to coat the inside too.
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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tgreese
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by tgreese »

Per the rockers, I would shoot them full of Fluid Film or Waxoyl or other similar rust preventatives. You can take the aluminum door plates off and shoot the goop down through holes you drill under the plates, or maybe drill holes on the inside surface of the rockers. Then cover any holes with glued-on patches or coat some patches with roofing tar and pop rivet in place. You can fix any holes in the rockers that way too. Test your bubbles with a sharp screwdriver and poke through if you can. If you are pushing holes through, you're probably better off to wallow out what rust you can, treat with a rust convertor (Permatex is good) or Waxoyl or Fluid FIlm or something, then patch over it. It will last a few years.

Generally with rusty rockers, it's not a good idea to cut out the minimally sized rusty section and weld in new steel. The back sides of your welds will be raw steel, even if you use weld-through primer. For the best repair, you'd remove the whole rocker and prime the backside as well as the outside, then weld where you'll have access to the welds afterwards. It takes some thought and planning so that you have no hidden welds that will rust once you put everything together.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

candymancan
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:32 pm

Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by candymancan »

Just gatta use a lot of coats.. like 3-4 so youll end up using a lot of cans lol ive probly gone through 100 cabs.. but more is better imo. Here are pics of what mine looked like in the back... was a lot of rust and thats after i banged the chunky stuff off the frame.. it looked worse before.. Been two years now and its still painted nothing has come back

https://imgur.com/a/QAwfj
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)
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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

tgreese wrote:Per the rockers, I would shoot them full of Fluid Film or Waxoyl or other similar rust preventatives. You can take the aluminum door plates off and shoot the goop down through holes you drill under the plates, or maybe drill holes on the inside surface of the rockers. Then cover any holes with glued-on patches or coat some patches with roofing tar and pop rivet in place. You can fix any holes in the rockers that way too. Test your bubbles with a sharp screwdriver and poke through if you can. If you are pushing holes through, you're probably better off to wallow out what rust you can, treat with a rust convertor (Permatex is good) or Waxoyl or Fluid FIlm or something, then patch over it. It will last a few years.

Generally with rusty rockers, it's not a good idea to cut out the minimally sized rusty section and weld in new steel. The back sides of your welds will be raw steel, even if you use weld-through primer. For the best repair, you'd remove the whole rocker and prime the backside as well as the outside, then weld where you'll have access to the welds afterwards. It takes some thought and planning so that you have no hidden welds that will rust once you put everything together.

All great information. One question though.

I understand replacing the rocker will leave bare welds on the reverse side BUT if I replaced the rocker and then sprayed the Fluid Film through the access mentioned wouldn't that protect those bare welds or no?

I'm all about buying me a few years but if the ultimate solution will be replacing then I want to get a good idea of what that may entail.
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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Topic author
Rinkle_Stinkle
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

candymancan wrote:Just gatta use a lot of coats.. like 3-4 so youll end up using a lot of cans lol ive probly gone through 100 cabs.. but more is better imo. Here are pics of what mine looked like in the back... was a lot of rust and thats after i banged the chunky stuff off the frame.. it looked worse before.. Been two years now and its still painted nothing has come back

https://imgur.com/a/QAwfj

awesome! i'll be taking a wire wheel to the frame this summer and doing that then. :-bd
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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tgreese
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by tgreese »

Rinkle_Stinkle wrote:
I understand replacing the rocker will leave bare welds on the reverse side BUT if I replaced the rocker and then sprayed the Fluid Film through the access mentioned wouldn't that protect those bare welds or no?
Yeah, it would help. But it would be better to replace the whole rocker and pre-prime the inside. You could weld like the factory did, at the pinch welds or seams, and have the weld exposed. Then prime and paint over the weld. Just something to consider when you plan the work.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

tgreese wrote:
Rinkle_Stinkle wrote:
I understand replacing the rocker will leave bare welds on the reverse side BUT if I replaced the rocker and then sprayed the Fluid Film through the access mentioned wouldn't that protect those bare welds or no?
Yeah, it would help. But it would be better to replace the whole rocker and pre-prime the inside. You could weld like the factory did, at the pinch welds or seams, and have the weld exposed. Then prime and paint over the weld. Just something to consider when you plan the work.
gotcha... makes sense.
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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tgreese
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by tgreese »

Another product to consider is cavity wax - https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/collision-r ... -wax-plus/ - this is what you'd use to cover over those exposed welds that you are thinking about, and fill any inaccessible seams between panels. I'm not sure how well it would work on top of rusty steel - I suspect the more liquid-y products like Fluid FIlm or Waxoyl will work better for that.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

candymancan
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by candymancan »

Fyi you can drill into the back of the rocker from the underside and spray paint inside the rockers that way. I did that to my ZJs just drilled large hole into them from underneeth on the side (not like under the rocker i mean on the side of it under the jeep) and sprayed rust reformer in there..

You can do the same thing to the frame. Drill holes in it and spray at different angles. Its worked for me.

A round hole isnt going to do anything to the frame
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)
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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

tgreese wrote:Another product to consider is cavity wax - https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/collision-r ... -wax-plus/ - this is what you'd use to cover over those exposed welds that you are thinking about, and fill any inaccessible seams between panels. I'm not sure how well it would work on top of rusty steel - I suspect the more liquid-y products like Fluid FIlm or Waxoyl will work better for that.
I'd imagine with any of these I should be 100% sure that any moisture in the frame or rocker is completely gone or else I'm trapping that against the metal?
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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Rinkle_Stinkle
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Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

candymancan wrote:Fyi you can drill into the back of the rocker from the underside and spray paint inside the rockers that way. I did that to my ZJs just drilled large hole into them from underneeth on the side (not like under the rocker i mean on the side of it under the jeep) and sprayed rust reformer in there..

You can do the same thing to the frame. Drill holes in it and spray at different angles. Its worked for me.

A round hole isnt going to do anything to the frame

sounds pretty reasonable. I'd imagine I can get a rubber plug for those holes in the rocker?
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
User avatar

tgreese
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Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:31 am
Location: Medford MA USA

Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by tgreese »

Lowes or Home Depot has plugs in either steel or plastic. Paint the bare edges of the holes, slather the plug with roofing cement or other sealant, and plug the hole. What I've done with (what seems like) good results is to cover rust-through holes with a painted steel patch and pop rivet the patch in place. Pop rivets are great for sheet metal - get a quality gun and a bunch of different sized rivets. I think I have this one https://www.amazon.com/Arrow-Fastener-R ... +rivet+gun and boxes of rivets from McMaster-Carr.

You want to put something on the patches and in the gap between to seal them - I have used seam sealant with good results. Any mechanically attached patch will leak if you don't seal it.

You can rivet or screw your patch in place and seal between and paint over the edges with this - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H2 ... UTF8&psc=1 Get some flux brushes (Harbor Freight) as disposable applicators.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

candymancan
Posts: 3652
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:32 pm

Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by candymancan »

Rinkle_Stinkle wrote:
candymancan wrote:Fyi you can drill into the back of the rocker from the underside and spray paint inside the rockers that way. I did that to my ZJs just drilled large hole into them from underneeth on the side (not like under the rocker i mean on the side of it under the jeep) and sprayed rust reformer in there..

You can do the same thing to the frame. Drill holes in it and spray at different angles. Its worked for me.

A round hole isnt going to do anything to the frame

sounds pretty reasonable. I'd imagine I can get a rubber plug for those holes in the rocker?

I mean if you want sure lol. Home depot has various sized rubber plugs. In fact if you look at the rocker in the rear by the tire there is a rubber plug from factory you can pop it off and flush the rocker out with a hose.
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)
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Topic author
Rinkle_Stinkle
Posts: 224
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:22 am

Re: Repainting cost and suggestions

Post by Rinkle_Stinkle »

tgreese wrote:Lowes or Home Depot has plugs in either steel or plastic. Paint the bare edges of the holes, slather the plug with roofing cement or other sealant, and plug the hole. What I've done with (what seems like) good results is to cover rust-through holes with a painted steel patch and pop rivet the patch in place. Pop rivets are great for sheet metal - get a quality gun and a bunch of different sized rivets. I think I have this one https://www.amazon.com/Arrow-Fastener-R ... +rivet+gun and boxes of rivets from McMaster-Carr.

You want to put something on the patches and in the gap between to seal them - I have used seam sealant with good results. Any mechanically attached patch will leak if you don't seal it.

You can rivet or screw your patch in place and seal between and paint over the edges with this - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H2 ... UTF8&psc=1 Get some flux brushes (Harbor Freight) as disposable applicators.
Id imagine you'd grind the patch down to create a smooth transition and then prime and paint.
1988 Grand Wag
AMC 360 with 96K
Edelbrock intake manifold
260H Comp Cam
Edelbrock AVS 4brl carb
Headman headers
2" to thrush muff with 3" tip exhaust
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