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78 Wagoneer 401, just spent the last week replacing the water pump. Not exactly a fun job but I hate to be a whiner. Anyway, fired it up tonight and I have problems. The water pump pulley is rubbing the crank pulley. I'll post two pics where you can see the shiny metal where they are interfering.
I ran it with the pump pulley off and the crank pulley seems right, no wobbling or anything. I'm kinda worried that this parts store (probably Chinese) pump ain't right. I'm a grown man but I'll probably cry if I have to take the pump off again. Any ideas? I hope I did something dumb that you can tell me how to fix.
Do the belt grooves line up properly on both pulleys ?
I suppose the water pump could be manufactured slightly off, like most import crap. but in any event that is a closer tolerance than seems normal. are you positive your pulleys are correct and haven't been swapped with another year or application ?
It's a head scratcher. I'm 100% sure those are the same pulleys I took off of it. The alignment looked right to my eyes. I have zero familiarity with amc v8s, so I don't know how much clearance there normally is. It's hard to see with the radiator in.
I still have it, and I was looking at it last night. I have to figure out some way of trying to measure where the fan "boss" is oriented on the new vs. the old. I honestly got frustrated and had to walk away for the night.
I just wonder if, were I to loosen ALL of the bolts holding the water pump, there would be enough play to move it up 1/16" or so. I think that's all it would take. Unfortunately I used permatex water pump gasket sealer and I'm sure at this point I'd have to take it all the way off an put on a new gasket.
They run MUCH closer than I would have imagined. leave it to AMC. I think your only problem is the pump is a bit off.
The pulleys are offset slightly so they have more clearance, I can't say if this is intentional or just a coincidence but they do clear.
If it were me I'd do one of 3 things, move the pump up as high as possible in the holes and hope it clears. or make a thin 1/16 or less spacer to move the pump pulley forward if that looks like it would work, or simply grind a little off where they're rubbing and let them polish themselves to where they're happy. assuming the contact is as light as think it is.
The worst thing that could happen is you screw up a $10 set of pulleys.
Thanks for looking at your parts rig, I appreciate knowing they're all pretty close. I'm already strongly considering taking the grinder to the pulley. If I mount the old pump in a vise and run a flap wheel on the pulley mounted to it, it will grind off evenly as the pulley rotates. My only concern is I can't take very much off the rear area where it is fouling because it could separate the back pulley groove from the hub. But.. it's supposed to snow tonight and I really want to drive the Waggy tomorrow! I also might try spacing it out 1/16" with washers. If you can't tell I'm stubbornly resisting taking the pump back off!
First thing I would do is install the original pump and accurately measure the center-to-center between the crank and the water pump impeller. Seems to me this measurement is off on your current installation because the bolt pattern of the replacement pump was not aligned correctly with the impeller center when drilled (either the impeller bore or the bolt pattern could be off). If the distance of the new pump's impeller to the crank is smaller, it's defective - take the pump back and get a different brand.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
mgbreis wrote:Tim, that's definitely what I should do....
It's a Duralast from Autozone.
thank you... i had only bad parts from vatozone, starter #1 on the wrangler after 2 days, it trip the store main when it was tested, and #2 failed after 2 months when my daughter was 500 miles away.
there was a post about the aluminum version that has better specs, such as not rubbing on the harmonic balancer
I give up... it's gotta come all apart again. Neither a light grinding of the wp pulley or spacing it out with washers did any good. I think Tim might have id'd the issue, it's hard to tell but it looks like the mounting holes might not be drilled in the center of the machined areas. I saw your post too late Michel, as I already ordered a Gates pump from Amazon. It'll be here by Friday and if I don't like the way it looks at least it's easy to send back. FYI, this wasn't the only issue with the Autozone pump, as the nipple for the heater hose on the pump is significantly bigger than stock. I had to adapt to a short piece of larger heater hose with a barbed nipple. Time to start over. It'll be interesting to see if the zone will give my money back.
mgbreis wrote:FYI, this wasn't the only issue with the Autozone pump, as the nipple for the heater hose on the pump is significantly bigger than stock.
Most aftermarket pump need serious filling to clean the poor cast foundry on both hoses fittings. Do not hesitate w large file and finish w wet and dry 120 grit, it does not need to be super smooth. Then I apply #2 permatex when fitting the hoses.
Last edited by letank on Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)
Once you get the "new" pump out, be sure to compare it to the original. Take pics and send them to AutoZone. Perhaps they will send you some compensation, perhaps not. But posting pics will help us know what to look out for.
Okay, time for the kinda sorta aha moment. Sitting on the sofa thinking about this... it occurs to me that I've been so fixated on the pulley thing that I've ignored a couple of your comments about interference with the balancer. I just went out to the garage and looked underneath and sure enough the balancer is hitting the water pump. I know the pulleys were interfering because of the evidence on them, but I ALSO have the balancer hitting. I feel stupid but I just wasn't aware of this common issue. Obviously I still have to take the pump off but I might be able to salvage it.
Other than poorly indexed water pump bolt holes or a sloppy pump bushing, the only other possible culprit is crank main bearings being so worn down that the pulleys interfere. I admit I've never experienced this issue.
1977 Cherokee Chief - The Blair Jeep Project III
A collection of parts flying in close formation
Unfortunately the cast iron pumps seem to have major fitmit problem. I've gone with the aluminum GMB pumps on both my FSJs and have been happy with them.
