Pinion Seal

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1979bettywhite
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:14 am

Pinion Seal

Post by 1979bettywhite »

This may be a dumb question, but I need to swap out the pinion seal on my front Dana 44. I can find the seal at many of the local part stores, but want to make sure I use a decent seal. Anyone have a part number or a seal they recommend.

Also, I assume the pinion nut is a a standard 7/8" nut? And from what I have read I need to change this when I change the seal? Anyone have a part number for this?

This is my first time to do this job, but it sounds pretty straightforward in the TSM and from what I read. Mark and unbolt the driveshaft from the yoke, center punch the threads to mark the correct "torque" amount when re-installing the nut, pull the nut off with my impact (hopefully), remove seal, replace seal, replace nut to 210 lbs of torque or to the center punch mark on the threads. I assume I should use a catch basin for potential fluid loss? I am running probably an inch or so below the fill hole currently.

Thanks for your help guys!

csuengr
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by csuengr »

I have reused pinion nuts before without issue. (insert joke about pinon nuts)

No need to mark the driveshaft orientation. These driveshafts are balanced independently of the yokes. Never heard of marking with a punch. I just tighten the nut as much as I can.
1977 Cherokee S, Ford 5.0, 5 speed, BW 1356, 33 x 10.50 BFG's. No longer my DD.
2007 Mercury Milan, 2.3L, 5-speed, now my DD. 29 mpg average.

SJTD
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by SJTD »

I've heard of reusing coffee beans after traveling through a monkey or maybe it was some sort of rodent but not pinion nuts.

I'd go by torque not some mark. A few thousandths, which would be visually undetectable, would mean a big difference in torque. Also, nut thickness could be different. Where'd you read that method?
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'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

Topic author
1979bettywhite
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by 1979bettywhite »

From the 77 TSM:

PINION SEAL AND FRONT YOKE REPLACEMENT
1 Raise vehicle.
2 Mark propeller shaft and yoke for assembly
alignment reference and disconnect propeller shaft from
yoke.
3 Remove pinion nut and washer using socket and
handle and Tool J-8614-01 fig. 10-2.
4 Remove yoke using Tool J-8614-01, 02, 03 fig.
10-3.
5 Remove pinion seal using Tool J-25180.
6 Install replacement seal using Tool J-25104.
7 Install yoke.
8 Install pinion washer and nut. Tighten nut to
210 foot-pounds torque.
9 Align reference marks on propeller shaft and
yoke and connect shaft to yoke. Tighten shaft-to-yoke
attaching bolts or nuts to 16 foot-pounds torque.

What's the best way to torque it down to 210 ft lbs? I have an impact and a torque wrench, but torquing things down to 100 ft lbs was about all I can handle with the torque wrench
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REDONE
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by REDONE »

Yeah, you need a bigger torque wrench. I like deflecting beam style for most everything, except things like pinion nuts, which is why my 300lb wrench is the click type.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.

Topic author
1979bettywhite
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by 1979bettywhite »

Cool. I think I will just use the loan-a-tool program at one of the local auto parts stores for this one. Don't suspect I will need my own for much more than 150 ft lbs.
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REDONE
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by REDONE »

Definitely. I only got mine (pawnshop Snap-On) because I was working on industrial equipment. Definitely not worth buying when you can borrow one!
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.

Topic author
1979bettywhite
Posts: 547
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:14 am

Re: Pinion Seal

Post by 1979bettywhite »

So I guess the instructions are fairly well straightforward in the TSM. Should I expect to lose some fluid when I pull the seal? And I guess most of the seals are pretty similar (around the $7-10 range)? Have seen some as high as $45 :shock:

Thanks for everyone's help so far. Continuing to grow my automotive knowledge.
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REDONE
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by REDONE »

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that part, but I've had no problems with National Seal which is Oreilly's standard issue. For things like that I always try to buy american or at least not chinese, but nobody lists country of origin until it's in your hand, out of the packaging and looking really close at it.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.

Topic author
1979bettywhite
Posts: 547
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:14 am

Re: Pinion Seal

Post by 1979bettywhite »

That's the one I was looking at. Thanks REDONE!

candymancan
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by candymancan »

1979bettywhite wrote:Cool. I think I will just use the loan-a-tool program at one of the local auto parts stores for this one. Don't suspect I will need my own for much more than 150 ft lbs.

If you need over 150 get one from harbor freight.. I have one that goes to 300ft lbs and have used it many times. but not on the wagoneer. The ZJ though and friends cars which have one unit hub bearings require torque beyond 150ft lbs so ive used the wrench like 7 or 8 times now.

As for beam style wrenches... those are hard find these days... I broke my craftsman one that went to 150 and i havent been able to find a new one since.. Craftsman doesnt even make them anymore so i couldnt even use the lifetime warrenty.

Losing fluid yes you will lose some.. so have an oil pan ready and wear gloves and clothing you wanna throw away... i hate gloves.. but gear oil smells like cat piss and its impossible to get out
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)
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tgreese
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by tgreese »

IME you just need to get the pinion nut really tight... the exact torque is not so important as tightening to at least that setting. You can estimate what torque you put on the nut by how much weight you put on your breaker bar, ie 100 lbs of your weight at 3' length is 300 ft-lb. This is not a critical force-distributing application, like a cylinder head. I also have reused the pinion nut with some blue Loctite, with no ill effects. I believe the main issue is that the locking collar on the nut does not hold as well if assembled multiple times, so a new nut is specified. You don't want the nut backing off...
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
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Stuka
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by Stuka »

Getting the proper torque on a pinion nut is more important the very first time it is torqued as you are setting the pinion pre-load. Once the bearings are broken in, you don't want to torque it to the same level as knew, or you may destroy the bearings.
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tgreese
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by tgreese »

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I recall the AMC corporate axle has a crush sleeve (collapsible spacer) and the 44 does not. The 44 pinion depth is determined by the overall length of the gear, cups and shims, and won't change significantly depending on how tight the nut is. With the 20, you need to be careful of the torque setting due to the presence of the collapsible spacer. You may need to replace the collapsible spacer as well as the oil seal on a 20 - I could not find a clear statement about that from a quick reading of the TSM.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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Stuka
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by Stuka »

Correct, the AMC 20/23 use a crush sleeve. I have seen people replace the seal without doing the crush sleeve, but not advisable.

The D44 (in our Jeeps anyway) uses pre-load shims. Pre-load is determined by how tight the pinion is torqued down in conjunction with how many pre-load shims are used. The pinion gets shims added and then torqued until 20-40 in/lb of pre-load can be measured using an inch-lb torque wrench when rotating the pinion by itself (no carrier).

I have seen guys doing just the seal torque the pinion down to 180 or so and call it good. Check for rotational drag (compare to before doing seal) and as long as its not too high, you should be ok. But technically pre-load should be re-done, which means pulling the carrier and all that fun stuff. He could also mark the pinion nut as a point of reference.
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Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

Topic author
1979bettywhite
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by 1979bettywhite »

Thanks guys. Yes, I know about the crush sleeve in the 20, as that is my rear axle in the CJ. Have not done it before, but know it is a more involved process. My plan for the Chief was to go by the TSM instructions. Torque back to 210. I think the initial torque was 250. Will check the rotation as well, and do plan to mark the pinion nut. Now to just fine a pinion nut locally....

csuengr
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Re: Pinion Seal

Post by csuengr »

Do you have any piñon trees?
1977 Cherokee S, Ford 5.0, 5 speed, BW 1356, 33 x 10.50 BFG's. No longer my DD.
2007 Mercury Milan, 2.3L, 5-speed, now my DD. 29 mpg average.
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