Another rear window glass question...

[edognight]

yes, the motor does work if you jump it off. The motor draws power on both the up and down settings, the relay clicks, but nothing happens...test light shows that post 30 on both up and down is getting power when you hit the switch, but the motor wont turn. so the switch and relay are "telling" the motor to turn, but it will not. I am really really stuck here. it is almost like the motor isnt getting a ground, since it is a 2 wire motor...

[SJTD]

Looks to me like that's pretty much the same circuit I linked except the down relay is getting signal on Pin 85 and the coil is grounded on Pin 86.

That shouldn't matter since the coil is isolated unless there's an internal diode. Even then it would work in the Up direction. Edit: Nevermind. This configuration is correct since the polarity of the signal is reversed. Shoot, another edit: After thinking about this some more my edit above doesn't make sense and my first statement in this paragraph is correct. The polarity of the signal to the relays is the same in both up and down so ignore the first edit.

Do you have a digital volt meter? You could measure voltage across the motor leads with the motor disconnected and see it switch between plus and minus 12v when you actuate the switch.

With the test light are you going between Pin 30 and ground? If so it would only light in one direction. If that's how you're doing it and it lights both directions something isn't right.

Should test it with the motor disconnected and the light between the two 30's. It should light in both up and down positions.

The motor itself is isolated from ground. Grounding the case has no effect on the function of the motor.

[dodgerammit]

^this. If I understand correctly, the motor basically uses one lead as the hot and the other becomes "ground" or negative in the circuit. Hence why we say polarity sensitive. If your motor is working jumped straight to the battery, the issue is not your motor.

Clarify this statement for us: "..test light shows that post 30 on both up and down is getting power when you hit the switch, "

Do you mean both relays show power at post 30 when you move the switch in either direction?

[dodgerammit]

Also, did you read where the guy modified the original switches to work with relays? OEM switches are what flip flop the current flow.

Maybe get a basic on-off-on switch from the parts store and see if that eliminates your problem.

[ShagWagon]

Take the front switch out and take it apart inside a box so you don't lose any parts on the ground as there's a lot of tiny ones. It's somewhat of a puzzle to take apart and put back together but not too hard. You will see where the buildup is on the copper contacts parts. Clean them with a qtip, marvel mystery oil or favorite metal cleaner, pick, file, sandpaper etc..

They get corrosion build up on them and may not be sending enough power through it.

[edognight]

Ok, so SJTD, thanks, I will measure the voltage across the motor wires to test for flipping voltage. Pin 30 lights on one relay when pushed down, and one relay when pushed up, both times the relay clicks. yes, test it with the motor disconnected, to test for current flow, and the ground functioning.

then, dodger, to clarify: not both relays at once, one pin 30 lights up when the down is pushed at the front switch, and the other lights up when the up is pushed. So, I know current is going through the relay and going to the motor, what I havent figured out is, how does that power get grounded, because the current would be flowing from one pin 30 to the motor, to the other pin 30.

I will look at either cleaning the switch, or replacing, but the switch is not the problem, I don't think...if you look at the wiring diagram, the way it is designed, one pin 30 gets tripped by the existing up wire from the switch in the front. that would send current to the motor then to the other relay's pin 30, and hopefully be grounded, if i follow the diagram correctly.

I havent had a chance to troubleshoot, but thanks for responding.

Question: once current flows from one pin 30, to the motor, then to the other pin 30, on the other relay, will that current flow 'backwards' into the relay and get grounded? or will it not flow backwards, into the relay, and be dead ended, and therefore not grounded?

this is the wiring diagram i followed, http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4285

[dodgerammit]

Have you jumped the safety switch and tested the system to verify it is not at fault?

If yes:

Try replacing one of your factory switches with a basic on-off-on switch and see if the motor functions.

If those don't work, you may have a broken wire in the original harness.

[edognight]

ok, so at least I know what is wrong, never assume anything works! the motor worked on a bench test, and went all the way down to the limit of the regulator, and inside the motor, the rotor went all the way down and smashed into the housing, and would not turn, it had jammed very tightly in the housing. I had to wrench it off, and now it wont work at all, so ill either get a new one, or take it back to the electric motor guy who had supposedly rebuilt it. It looks like it was adjusted wrong, but, no big deal, i'd like to thank everyone who helped!!

lesson learned, test everything even if it is a low % chance.

[SJTD]

Question: once current flows from one pin 30, to the motor, then to the other pin 30, on the other relay, will that current flow 'backwards' into the relay and get grounded? or will it not flow backwards, into the relay, and be dead ended, and therefore not grounded?

this is the wiring diagram i followed, http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4285

Pin 30 is Common, Pin 87a is the normally closed contact and Pin 87 is normally open.

87a Is grounded on both relays if wired correctly.

So the current path is 12V to Pin 87 on the powered up relay, through to Pin 30, to the motor, back to Pin 30 on the unpowered relay, through to pin 87a and to ground.

This is why you want to use the test light between the two Pin 30's. Then it's simulating the motor installation.

There was some discussion about modifying the dash switch. This isn't necessary if wired per the diagram you're following. Using a standard switch to replace the dash switch will not work with the stock wiring or the diagram you're following.

The stock wiring is kind of a kludge.

In their off positions the tailgate switch passes both motor leads straight through to the dash switch which grounds them.

When the key switch is moved it disconnects one side from the dash switch and connects it to 12v while the other lead continues to pass the ground through to the dash switch.

When the dash switch is actuated it disconnects one side from ground and powers it while the other remains grounded.

One last thing. You said the motor bound up. Was it installed in the regulator? It's been a while since I had mine apart but I thought the motor by itself could run continuously. No internal stop???

[candymancan]

The motor has a plastic gear inside of it.. nothing will stop the motor if its run full time off the regulator.. but if its run like that with it being on the regulator itll strip the plastic gear.

My swit h used to get stuck uo and i didnt realize it was stuck.. Next thing i knew was my window was sliding down by itself because of the stripped plastic gear.

Got a new gear from one in the junkyard and it works fine niw. I also got a spare gear laying around and a spare motor with gear in case lol