440sixpack wrote:The oil mod is a joke. the chain is nice but not necessary.
To answer the rest of your questions and create even more, what compression are you planning on having ? are you taking it to the track ?
Nice breakdown! I am in the middle of a 360 rebuild myself (having a local guy do mine) and am researching so this thread has been super helpful. I have been looking around about the Oil mod and apparently there are quite a few. Some more geared towards higher rpm motors? Are you saying that none of them are necessary or is it that bjs offers a particular one that isn’t particularly necessary?REDONE wrote:Timing chain: the roller style isn't important, the number of oiler grooves is. You want as few as possible, and your more likely to get fewer with a stock style chain. Performance chains have more grooves to let more oil sling out into the chain at the expense of oil getting to the dizzy gears, which need it more. The chain dips into a puddle of oil in the bottom of the timing cover, the higher the RPM, the deeper the puddle. The dizzy gears only get what oil travels along the camshaft, the more you let out, the less the dizzy gears get.
Camshaft: the Melling MTA-1 (RV) cam is literally the exact same grind as the Edelbrock Preformer. I like them but others have their favorites as well.
Degreeing a cam: this is primarily done when you want to use a cam at higher RPMs than it was designed for. For all practical considerations, it's a race only application.
Roller rockers: the principle gain on our engines is that it makes each rocker adjustable. For a daily driver, it might net a little bit of seat-of-pants yah-yahs if you screw with them enough, but nothing you'll ever measure in a DD engine.
Oil line mod: you don't need it. The problem was identified by circle and oval track racers at sustained high revs and lateral Gs. Outside those conditions the problem isn't observed.
Pistons: The only reason not to run 9:1 static compression in our engines (most modern engines are 10:1 + and use the fuel injection to control detonation) is the hassle of figuring out how to get there, there's a fair number of considerations. Hypereutectic is an aluminum alloy with higher silica that reduces the amount of thermal expansion. The pistons fit the bore tighter when cold. I like hyper pistons.
Port and Polish: It's not worth what it costs to pay someone else to do it, I'll leave it at that.
REDONE wrote:Timing chain: the roller style isn't important, the number of oiler grooves is. You want as few as possible, and your more likely to get fewer with a stock style chain. Performance chains have more grooves to let more oil sling out into the chain at the expense of oil getting to the dizzy gears, which need it more. The chain dips into a puddle of oil in the bottom of the timing cover, the higher the RPM, the deeper the puddle. The dizzy gears only get what oil travels along the camshaft, the more you let out, the less the dizzy gears get.
Camshaft: the Melling MTA-1 (RV) cam is literally the exact same grind as the Edelbrock Preformer. I like them but others have their favorites as well.
Degreeing a cam: this is primarily done when you want to use a cam at higher RPMs than it was designed for. For all practical considerations, it's a race only application.
Roller rockers: the principle gain on our engines is that it makes each rocker adjustable. For a daily driver, it might net a little bit of seat-of-pants yah-yahs if you screw with them enough, but nothing you'll ever measure in a DD engine.
Oil line mod: you don't need it. The problem was identified by circle and oval track racers at sustained high revs and lateral Gs. Outside those conditions the problem isn't observed.
Pistons: The only reason not to run 9:1 static compression in our engines (most modern engines are 10:1 + and use the fuel injection to control detonation) is the hassle of figuring out how to get there, there's a fair number of considerations. Hypereutectic is an aluminum alloy with higher silica that reduces the amount of thermal expansion. The pistons fit the bore tighter when cold. I like hyper pistons.
Port and Polish: It's not worth what it costs to pay someone else to do it, I'll leave it at that.
If this image isn't too fuzzy, it'll show all the dumb, dumb, dumbdumbdumb oil robbing grooves in the cam sprocket of the timing chain.
tgreese wrote:Yes ... a rod knock will only get worse, and usually rapidly (from tap-tap-tap to BANG-BANG-BANG). It results from the breakdown of the oil film in the rod bearing, so that the bearing metal contacts the crankshaft iron, making a knocking noise. Either the bearing clearance is too large (worn out) and the oil is pushed/drained from the rod bearing too quickly, or some other wear or failure is robbing the rod bearings of oil.
What's your hot idle oil pressure? Hot is full operating temperature, say after you drive on the highway. Very important indicator for these engines. (Have we been through this?) Measure with a quality mechanical gauge - the factory gauges are only advisory.
Did you change the brand of filter? Brand/viscosity of oil? Did you measure the oil pressure before and after the oil change? Very important to track the oil pressure.
REDONE wrote:Yeah, rod-knock doesn't go away. It sounds like someone hitting a thick hardwood board with 2lb crosspeen hammer and gets louder until the engine seizes or shatters.
That's great news! Now you can spent you time and money on stuff you want instead of something you don't need!
babywag wrote:Rod knock will NOT just go away. Sounds to me like other shop saw a payday, sadly all to common.
If you're not sure about something always Do as you did and get a second opinion.
Also I'd call the shop/mechanic out on it, and see what they have to say about attempting to defraud you.
I'd also look @ their BBB profile/rating, see if they have a track record of this?
If they do I'd report their sorry ass, no excuse for this kind of thing.
When I was young and in school I worked @ a big chain repair shop. Their goal(per management) was to get $1000 out of every car that came in.
They were VERY aggressive, and they didn't care if the customer ever came back again.
I did NOT agree w/ this policy, and I did everything in my power to undermine it.
When pushed by the salesman I would push right back, and go tell the customers exactly what they needed/did NOT need.
I was almost fired for this if you can believe that BS, being honest was an undesirable work ethic.
I even loaded up my toolbox&went home on two occasions. I worked nights & weekends so frequently got to interact w/ customers myself.
I had more repeat customers than anyone else in that shop, people would specifically ask for me, and come back when they knew I was working.
Venture a guess I had more $ in sales w/ being honest and folks coming back BECAUSE I was honest.
REALLY pisses me off when I hear of shops/mechanics that try this kind of crap. Rant off.
good to read, it is not embarrassing, it is gaining experience... for every problem there is a simple solution.Rinkle_Stinkle wrote:SO.... I have an odd and slightly embarrassing update.
SO.... looks like I may not need the rebuild after all which my bank account is very happy about.
letank wrote:good to read, it is not embarrassing, it is gaining experience... for every problem there is a simple solution.Rinkle_Stinkle wrote:SO.... I have an odd and slightly embarrassing update.
SO.... looks like I may not need the rebuild after all which my bank account is very happy about.
time for the screwdriver test to locate the sound, put the blade of a large screwdriver on various parts of the engine and the plastic end against your ear to pinpoint the tapping sound, start on the valve cover and watch for the fan and belt and rotating pulleys.
as said above the type of oil and filter used are important too. The time I changed the oil filter for a better brand I developped a tapping sound , probably not related to the oil filter change when I had 190Kmiles, one of the hydraulic lifter collapsed and before the internet or BBB, i did not try to use any of the known tricks like MMO or transmission fluid added to the engine oil. I replaced only the 16 lifters, that was 150Kmiles ago on the same engine...
The timing chain gear is a real issue, there are some good pictures on this site about the alignement of oiling hole
http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12192
Unfortunately a lot of the picts where on photobucket and not available anymore, I have the some good picts and will post it later. SC397 has some very good infos on engine rebuilt, he is really an expert on this subject.
May be we need a sticky for timing chain gears so the topic does not come every so often... same for ammeter bypass, oil pressure... and battery cables
Added as you posted a new reply,
time to use some good oil, rotella 15W40 is a oil for diesel which is good for our engines, so if you are not in subzero weather you can use it, otherwise 10W30 for the winter, for the oil filter I found the AC at the local autozone or Oreillys.
the oil pressure fluctuations are normal, when the engine will starve for oil, you will hear it... as for the temp being low, time for using an infra red non contact thermometer or a oven temp gauge and stick in between the radiator finns...
remember that our "jeep gauges are not accurate, they are for entertainment only" (from Carnuck)