Why does my starter click and battery lose power when vehicle is hot ?

[candymancan]

Its starting to get annoying what my 90 is doing. I first thought maybe its heat soak on the starter.. Bascially what happens is if i drive my Jeep for 10 miles to the mall or whatever park.. turn it off and come back 5 minutes later the starter will tick quickly like the battery is dead. Sometimes i have lost power completetly no lights nothing. I go out and if i grab the positive cable and wiggle it roughly power comes back and the Jeep starts up fine.

I dont understand this. The positive and negative terminals are new. The negative cable i replaced completetly as well as the smaller body ground that bolts to the fender. The positive cables look new as well so i never replaced them. One of the previous owners had a new alternator put in and rewired the whole thing splicing purple/brown wires or whatever I know newer alternators you had to cut the two pin plug and re-wire the brown and i think white wire. It was all done correctly. however they did use butt connectors vs soldering. I removed all the wires on this little rectagle box bolted the fender below the heater core box. Cleaned all the wires up and put dielectric grease on em.

I dont understand, if the battery and body grounds are brand new, as well as the teminals, and the big red cables are newish as well going to the alt and starter why is the Jeep suddenly losing power where i have to wiggle the positive terminal ? Its super tight on the battery as well so it isnt wiggling loose. I also noticed the positive terminal is building crust on it im not sure what that means.

Im wondering if this is related to why my Jeep has low voltage in the cabin. Im getting under 13v some spots 12v anywhere in the cabin except when the Jeep is cold i get proper 13.5v, Once its hot the voltage on the dash drops below 13v specially if the headlights and A.C are on. I've seen it drop to the red line and i read 11.5v on the interior lighting when i was wiring in my rear view dimming mirror. Now if im driving 45-50mph at 2k rpm with my accesories on the voltage is flat on the 13v line, when i come to a stop itll drop to the red line almost when the lights/a.c

I had my battery checked and it came back as 96% charged. I even installed a 90A alternator vs the 70A one that was in there. The voltage on the battery reads 14v when its running so its charging the battery pretty high but somewhere from the battery to the interior it drops from 14v to 11-12v.. What does this mean ? Is this normal for these Jeeps ?

My main issue atm though is this clicking starter its getting worse every day i drive.. jeeps hot i come back 5 min later, turn key and the damn thing clicks. Is this actually just heat soak? I mean the red wire going to the starter is litterally 2 inches from the Y pipe lol. and same with the starter you know how close these pipes are to the wiring and starter is crazy.. My ZJ has a sheild wrapped around the Y pipe itself due to its proximity to the starter and i was thinking of applying the same thing to the wagoneer.


I also noticed the rubber tubing of the A.C is directly above the manifold and its actually melting. The A.C line is mushy and tar like.. Should I wrap the line in some sort of heat wrap ? Or maybe put a metal sheild above the manifold. Same with the wiring for the alternator all those smaller wires one of the P.O zip tied to the charocal canister but they are still 2inchs away from the manifold..

[csuengr]

you are describing bad electrical contact. This is usually on a ground wire, so check where the ground wire connects to the engine. Basically loosen and retighten that bolt. After that, pull both terminal off the battery and CLEAN the posts and terminals. Put some dielectric grease on the posts and put the terminals back on.

The voltage drop is normal. The voltage gauge is usually at the end of the line, plus if you are using the factory gauge, it isn't accurate.

Move the AC line as far away from the manifold as possible. Heat wrap wouldn't hurt. Wires should be in a loom. They were from the factory close anyway, but pull them away as far as possible.

[derf]

you are describing bad electrical contact. This is usually on a ground wire, so check where the ground wire connects to the engine. Basically loosen and retighten that bolt. After that, pull both terminal off the battery and CLEAN the posts and terminals. Put some dielectric grease on the posts and put the terminals back on.

The voltage drop is normal. The voltage gauge is usually at the end of the line, plus if you are using the factory gauge, it isn't accurate.

Move the AC line as far away from the manifold as possible. Heat wrap wouldn't hurt. Wires should be in a loom. They were from the factory close anyway, but pull them away as far as possible.

x2

[candymancan]

I mean how many ground wires are there. The only ones i know of in the engine bay is the big one on the battery, the smaller one going from the battery to the fender by the stock air intake tubing. And the one under the Jeep that bolts to the block and engine mount i believe. As for moving the air line. How do you move a line like that ? The older A.C units that i believe 89 or 88 and under have the lines come out the side pointing towards the fire wall direction. The A.C unit my 90 has is the newer better compressor that Chrysler put on which is less prone to leaking and the A.C lines come out of the top and go directly over the manifold pointing toward the fender. Does trhis make sense ?

There is no way to just move an A.C line like that. It comes out of the hard line and 1-2 inches out its over the manifold. This isnt my Jeep but its from a 90.. Notice the line coming out of the blue marked connector on the a.c compressor.. Its directly over the manifold

[csuengr]

Notice the main ground on the battery bolts to the AC compressor bracket. The connection under that bolt needs to be good. That is why I stated to loosen the bolt and retighten. That tends to clean up the connection. The major grounds are the big wire from the battery to the AC compressor bracket. Small wire from battery to fender. And small wire from frame to passenger side engine mount. There are also several under the dash. A couple for the front lights that screw to the core support, and ones for the rear lights that screw to the inside rear under the panels.

As for the AC line, use zip ties and tie it up.

[candymancan]

Those grounds on a.c comoressor and fender are brand new i mentioned that already. Like maybe 2 months old so are my terminals. The only one i didnt replace was the engine mount one. Ill change that one too next..

If that doesnt work. Then what else ? Should i try wrapping the starter or exhaust in a heatwrap or some kinda shield ? I think they sell heat wraps for starters actually lol i remember seeing em.

[csuengr]

Just because your cables are new doesn't mean the connection is clean. I had the same issue with new cables and I had to clean all the connections to get rid of the issue.

The other problem may be a bad battery, as in the internal connections are bad. Clean the cable connections first. This is the cheapest and easiest.

[BCRAWLER]

Next time it will not start hot, remove positive battery cable and give it a quick rub on both cable and battery with light emery paper. My old Chevy does this every so often and starts everytime I do this. Good for 3 or 4 months then repeat.

[candymancan]

Mm ok.

Well i nought a heatwrap for starter has like velcro and wraps around starters..

Also got a new 6 ga cable for the block to mount ground.

As i was checking the old ground i grabbed it and it moved around.. so it wasnt even tightend on the engine mount all the way...

[BCRAWLER]

Dang, just Googled your starter motor and it is the same unit as in my Chevy. What you will find is the starter motor solenoid being that round cylinder that's on the top of the starter motor is having an issue. If you want to do the easy route buy a new one. If cash is an issue you can take the old one apart and fix it. It takes about a half an hour once you get the starter motor out. Take the starter motor solenoid off and disassemble it and you will find a couple of carbon brushes in there. They rub on what I will refer to as a piece of metal that looks like a top hat. If the jeep has sat for any time or in damp environment you will find the contact area has corroded. Just sand it down to bare metal and reassemble and you should be all good. Lots of YouTube videos explaining how to do it. No special tools required either. The one I have sat for 5 years outside without being used.. if you have problems please post up or let us know if this worked.

[candymancan]

You sure the motor is the same ? Because after 88 or 89 the starter motors changed from the giant hulking ones to smaller ones.

Ill probly buy a new one if what all ive done doesnt work.. it is 30 years old anyway

[BCRAWLER]

Does the starter motor have the spare round cylinder on it or does it have a bump. Bump means it's similar to a Ford. My 81 has the bump for the 360 in it.

[candymancan]

Mine looks like this . Its got a larger cylinder and a smaller one. Ive seen starters on older grand wagoneers i believe the last one was an 88 and its starter motor was huge and hulking heavy. Mine is half the size.

They changed a lot on later grand wagoneers that ppl dont realize. Starters changed. A.c comoressors changed. The vacuum cans were all changed to balls. The rear wiper of course. And also the dana 44 axles were different on the hubs.

When i did my wheel bearings me and other people realized i had only 3 or 4 parts in mine and a veey large cylindrical shim.spacer my axle is a late model easier to work on d44 before one unit hubs..

Took me a week to find the pop out picture of the axle i had vs what everyone else has


http://contentinfo.autozone.com/znetcs/ ... 8/image/4/

[ProTouring442]

Those battery cable ends are M-I-C---K-E-Y-----M-O-U-S-E....

Replace the cables with real cables with built on ends. Clean the battery terminals, then put the cables down on and make sure they're good and tight. Also, make sure you clean the metal where the negative cable attaches to the engine.

[Curly]

I believe you answered your own question. If wiggling the (+) cable cures the chatter, the problem is in the (+) cable. Replace it with a decent size cable , 2gauge or smaller (larger wire = smaller number). I've seen brand new cables have poor internal connections.

[BCRAWLER]

My suggestion is to remove the positive battery terminal connection and clean it. Fairly sure this will resolve your issue. I use the same clamps for the battery on my truck and find they only last about nine months before they lose their coating. Once they lose their coating they corrode very quickly. After that every couple of months you have to disassemble and clean. I have an aftermarket voltmeter in mine which is wired to measure voltage while I am cranking. When they are dirty and I get a no-start condition the battery voltage drops to 8 or below.

[candymancan]

It gets crusty quickly though but i always clean it and i did that recently still clicks. Maybe ill try diff terminals but i habe the same ones on my other two jeeps and they are fine

My heat wrap didnt work. Starter clicked again today. Guess i just need to get a new starter ?

[BCRAWLER]

Clicking told me that your starter motor solenoid is bad. Check on prices and see how much a solenoid is versus a complete starter. Mine does the click thing and will start after the third try but I do know that it is a solenoid issue.

[ProTouring442]

It gets crusty quickly though but i always clean it and i did that recently still clicks. Maybe ill try diff terminals but i habe the same ones on my other two jeeps and they are fine

My heat wrap didnt work. Starter clicked again today. Guess i just need to get a new starter ?

No terminals, buy battery cables with made on ends. Those terminals are, at best, a temporary repair meant to get you home.

[csuengr]

My heat wrap didnt work. Starter clicked again today. Guess i just need to get a new starter ?

Heat wrap rarely, if ever, works, especially when everybody is saying you have an electrical problem.